4D and Half is Easy: Is AC more like FTP?

Half is Easy (HiE) vs Standing Starts (SS) vs The Trick. 

It looks to me like 4D is just going to scale different parts by your 4D power for the corresponding effort length.  

But then are HiE intervals about your ability to produce power for 15 seconds, like in SS, or even a minute like in the The Trick or in the Full Frontal test itself, or are HiE intervals about the ability to recover quickly from anaerobic efforts and maintain a sort of long term average (normalized) power over many efforts?  In HiE I keep an eye on my heart rate (and previous attempts at the whole session) to pace the intervals so that I'll just suffer through the last one.  In SS, I'll just go all out every time, so they seem completely different to me, and I probably don't really need 4DP for either one.   

Interestingly the 4D profile for SS says it's mostly NM, but the sprints are mostly in the AC category.  I suppose that could all be right depending on how you look at it.

Personally I get used to what I can do on particular intervals, which isn't to say I wouldn't benefit from a customized plan. That's different.   It doesn't help that the underlying processes and limitations still seem very uncertain.  I don't think normalized power is anything more than a guess that kind of works, and it's hard to believe the same guess works for averaging over-unders and also for endurance to tempo shifts.

0

Comments

6 comments
  • I think the category is selected manually & they take into account where in an interval a period is and if there is a break after.
    I’ve recently been manually adjusting the individual parameters during intervals & have been paying attention a lot more. The same duration interval might be different colours depending on where it falls in a video.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • eerke, I think you're probably right that the interval type is programmed by Von Agony and the minions themselves.  But it doesn't change that things just don't fall into tidy categories.

    The intervals in half is easy and in standing starts are both marked as AC intervals, but my question is, is your performance on them really even related?  I mean ok, to some extent performance on everything is related, but in that sense we can just go back to using ftp only. 

    Is there really some physiological underpinning that determines your A/C such this A/C is a better predictor of improvements in both SS and HiE than FTP would be? I think in HiE your results are going to be more limited by your MAP, or even FTP, than by your short term power capability, and again, in SS, it's really just irrelevant.  These are well-rested all out short sprints with long recovery.  No need for any targets.  You just GO ALL OUT.

     

     

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • I think we all know that limiting it to 4 types only is an oversimplification, but they need to balance realism with simplicity & the need for clearly different nomenclature. 

    As well as limiting themselves to only 4 types everybody is different. They need a scheme that allows people to be different. I don’t think less than 4 would allow that, but if there were many more it could get confusing. They also need to fit them all in 1 test session. 

    I think it all comes down to what your primary target is & what you want from intervals. My weakness is actually recovering near FTP *after* the interval. I don’t really care too much what height the interval is & find SS & HiE relatively easy. What I want is the 30s or so after the interval to hurt, but be possible & create a training effect. Before 4dp I would often kill myself to do the interval but then fail immediately after. I am particularly bad at sprinting though. If I used the standard 300% of FTP sprint (309*3 = 927W) I would have no chance. I’ve never broken 900W.

    Actually, the reason I think I’m so bad at recovering after intervals whilst continuing near FTP is that I’ve been doing intervals too hard for years. And it transfers to real life outdoor; I’ve always been good at going up the hill, but “pushing on” over the top - terrible. 

     

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • You're talking about a different session entirely. The thing is for either SS or something like you're describing, it really doesn't matter what your 4DP says about sprint power.  You just go as hard as you can, or close to it at least.  

    Anyway, my point maybe isn't even if they have too few types or too many (I might say too many) but if they're always getting categorized as well as they can. I think HiE isn't.  If your top sprint is 900 or only 800 doesn't matter.  Whatever that is, you can do it once, not 20 times in 12 minutes or whatever, and I'd guess MAP or FTP (and maybe recovery if that's really a separate thing, I'm not convinced) are more related to what you can do 20 times than NM or AC are.  Wouldn't you think?  

    Maybe recovery IS a 5th "dimension".  I know what you mean about recovery at FTP, although I'd argue that's a bit of a contradiction.  You either go lower than FTP (briefly or slightly) or you don't clear out acid and are are just sustaining an uncovered state (painfully). But  even being able to do that is probably an ability. I do like this kind of workout, not sure SF has much along that line.

     

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Cash register looks interesting, and maybe not too far off that threshold recovery notion.  I'll give it a try.  The cure has some aspect of that too, as well as the chores. 

    GCN's race winning intervals are really great for that too, and now that Sufferfest has the un-dockable on screen display you can use open-60 or open-whatever with youtube. Of course you could just use a garmin, but this is a little nicer.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • I feel like someone was listening to some of that, because batman intervals released a few  weeks ago, are very very similar to GCN race winning intervals, just slight differences in timing and number of sets.  But they're a no-vid.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Didn't find what you were looking for?

New post